#Spy x Family analysis

[whateversawesome]

Spy x Family Ch. 111: Anya's Mama

So many things for such a little chapter, don't you think?

We saw baby Anya and we finally caught a glimpse of Anya's biological mother.

Something to notice is that they're both wearing hospital gowns, which makes me think they were in the lab and, because of that, we can solidify the theory about Anya being born there. It could be that her mom was pregnant when captured or that they experimented on her and she got pregnant while in that lab. A secret third option is that Anya's mom actually volunteered for the experiments (maybe she was a scientist herself or a family member coaxed her into doing it), although I find this unlikely due to her comment about the butterfly. Either way, I have a feeling we won't know for a very long time.

Mindreading or no mindreading?

Endo chose not to let us know about that explicitly. However, look at this panel:

I don't think Anya's mom is talking here. I think she's thinking this. Because of that, I do suspect Anya can read her mama's mind. She doesn't fully understand it but those words are inside her memory.

However, as you can see in the panel below, we don't see her classic mindreading sparkles. So, it' could also be that she saw her mom getting sad or nostalgic and she wanted to hug her. Kids are very perceptive of their parent's emotions.

If you ask me, I think she was born with that ability. Either her mom was also a telepath who was being studied during her pregnancy or she was experimented while pregnant and gained and passed her abilities to her daughter.

All this makes me consider that maybe Anya wasn't experimented on like many of us believed for a long time. Maybe those scientists were just studying her/observing her in order to understand and try to replicate her abilities. I'm really hoping Endo will go this route, it's less cruel. In any case, keeping someone so young as a case study is still wrong and I don't think Twilight and Yor will like this.

Anya's Mama

I'm talking about Yor, of course.

First of all, I think Endo summed up what motherhood is about in this panel:

It's not exactly that a mom can read their kid's mind, but it's something close. As a mom you get to know your child inside and out. When you take care of them, see them grow and love them with all your heart, you simply learn to "read every part of them."

That's how we know that Yor loves Anya and that she is her mom.

I don't know what happened to Anya's biological mom; she could be gone or still be alive. I'm sure we'll find out eventually. However, no matter what happens, I think Anya will always have that unconditional love from Yor.

There's a prevalent theme about motherhood in sxf: a mother as a safe place. Yor has mentioned it several times; she knows her job is to protect Anya and Anya feels safe when her mama is around (even Twilight notices this.)

I think the bond between them will get stronger as the story moves forward. Come on, it's pretty obvious Anya is Yor's baby, she's already head over heels and she decided she wanted to be a good mother since day 1. Also, a big theme in the story are bonds that are forged, and chosen family. In the story, blood ties sometimes are complicated (look at the Desmonds, for example.)

I'm not fluent in Japanese, but I am aware that Anya calls Yor and Twilight, Haha and Chichi, which is an English equivalent of "my mom and my dad", instead of just "mom and dad." In case you are wondering, Anya did call her biological mom, the right way: "mama."

At some point in the story, I think we will see Anya call Yor and Twilight, mama and papa the right way. I suspect this will be the moment when they will realize they're no longer a pretend family, but a real one. And it'll be simply beautiful 💖

A Few Questions

Whenever we learn something about one of the Forger's past, we are usually left with even more questions like:

Where's Anya's mom now?: I think either she's still a prisoner somewhere or she's dead. And if she's alive, does she know Anya lives?

How did Anya escape? She was so little! She must have had help from someone.

Who is Anya's dad? Maybe a scientist? A prisoner of war? Or was artificial insemination possible back then?

Is Anya her real name? I'm wondering if her mom called her differently. Here are some theories about her name. I suspect this will be important and I wouldn't be surprised if Anya is not her real name, almost as a foil of Twilight's name and story.

And also, there's a gap between that scene/memory and when Anya gets adopted by Twilight. We know thanks to Franky that in the year before Twilight adopted her, she was previously adopted by four different families, however, there's still a chunk of time missing.

I estimate she's probably 2 years old in that memory, she was 4 when she was adopted by those other families, and 5 years old when Twilight became her dad. That leaves 2 full years blank. Where was she during that time?

[hiiragireina]

Spoiler Alert of Spy x Family manga new chapter

ENDO REALLY KNOWS HOW TO "COOKED" A FANDOM WITH A SNAP WITH HIS NEW CHAPTER EVENTHOUGH IT'S SHORT 😭

My feelings said that Anya's biological mother was beautiful

[pintsofguinnesmakeyoustrong]

Spy x family is very very good because there's a bit where a far right terrorist group says that they want to start a war and a main character responds by saying to them "have any of you ever killed anyone before? Have you ever been killed before? Have you ever had a limb torn off by an artillery shell? Have you ever heard the sound of bones shattering? Have you ever smelled the reek of rotting flesh? Have you ever found the crushed bodies of your parents and siblings in a pile of rubble that used to be your home? Have you ever discovered a blown-off piece of your lover stuck to a wall? Have you ever been so hungry that you tried to eat tree bark? Or stewed a pot of human flesh? Have you ever convinced yourself that your enemy was subhuman so you could...slaughter them like animals? Have you ever been so haunted by shame and regret afterwards that you cried until you vomited? Have you ever had friends who did the same, and then took their own lives? Did you learn nothing about war at your university?!"

and that's the same volume where they adopt a dog that can see into the future

[lassify]

[Spy x Family ch. 109 spoilers]

I just finished the chapter as of two minutes ago, and I have to tell you, I am having the best time getting to use whip out my psychology degree again.

Good people of tumblr, allow me to introduce to you:

Capgras delusion

It's interesting that Melinda disclosed that she was a patient of the hospital before. It is no small feat to be admitted into psychiatric care - especially in a hospitalised setting. Psychiatric hospitals typically deal with very high-risk disorders and behaviours, with many patients being admitted to hospital either for their own safety, or for the safety of those around them.

What has this got to do with capgras delusion?

Capgras delusion is a very serious psychiatric disorder in which a person believes that someone very close to them has been replaced with an impostor.

It is not uncommon for sufferers of capgras delusion to believe that their loved ones have been replaced by aliens, a doppelganger, or a clone.

It can be from many causes: psychosis, schizophrenia, brain damage, neurodegenerative disease. In very rare cases there have even been documented unexepcted triggers such as ketamine, diabetes, migraines, and urinary cystitis.

And, crucially; it is not unheard of for sufferers of capgras delusion to be physically agressive towards the perceived impostor.

(Is that why she was sent to psychiatry before? Is that why she is estranged from Donovan and the children? Is that why she is kept under very close watch? Or is there something more sinister going on?)

From this chapter alone, I wonder if we will see a link between Melinda's delusion, and her past experiences. If Endo chooses to take the scientific route, we may see a history of physical abuse that resulted in brain damage, or a history of psychological abuse that made Melinda vulnerable to psychosis.

I would be really interested to see if Melinda's current way of thinking may have originated from having an initially loving relationship with Donovan Desmond, but she saw a sudden change in behaviour in him to become the heartless warmonger we now know him to be, which could have pushed her into this delusional belief.

After all, how could the man she fell in love with (conjecture), have turned into such a monster? The only explanation must be that Donovan Desmond is not the Donovan she knew, and just an impostor, right?

....Right?

[number-one-shadisper-shipper]

Okay so I have a thought/headcanon about Spy X Family.

Anya always does a little hand pat on people when she notices they're upset as a comfort. Which is super cute.

But what's even cuter is, I think she got is from Loid.

In the first episode, when he officially decides to keep her after rescuing her from the thugs, he acknowledges it by putting his hand on her head:

And then in episode 2, when Anya gets worried that Loid having her is preventing him from finding a wife, he again reaches out and rubs her head while assuring her it's not her fault:

He also pats her head in the episode after she gets accepted into Eden and she tells him she's going to do her best.

I think there's some others but I don't feel like trying to find them 😅

Anyway, I think Anya pats people to comfort them because she felt loved when Loid did it to her. I would guess she's never really been given physical affection before, and so Loid doing that made an impact on her, and that's why she does it to others.

[sophiamarieispinkbunny-chan]

Twilight's Habit of Observing Yor and Anya

I just noticed how often Twilight observes these two interacting with each other, the anime is inclined of highlighting this since most of these are not in the manga and I love them for that.

Look at how fond his face is when he's looking at Yor and Anya's genuine affection for each other. I think he can saw glimpses of him and his mom through them.

Yor and Anya share a true mother-daughter bond, even though they don't share the same blood. In his world as a spy, where deception and pretenses rule, Yor and Anya's genuine bond is a breath of fresh air for him. It was something that is very much real and it's something that is under his care regardless he is Twilight, Loid Forger or his true self. He was the one who united their family and I think it makes him wonder how an epitome of deception like himself can build something as authentic and genuine as this.

That face he makes, the longing warm stare directed at them. I can't explain it but his eyes are really different when he's looking at them. It's soft. Yep, this man is already into deep.

Also, it makes me wonder, judging at how often he observes these two, how could he not tell something was definitely weird about them? At this rate he must've been constantly and intentionally ignoring those😂

More Yor and Anya interacting with each other in Loid's view:

They were always so bright in his view. I think he associates the both of them as his source of light. That's just so sweet and wholesome😭❤️

[fijiwater33]

One of the reasons why I think that Spy x Family is so popular is that Endo got us to care about this family.

We want Loid to know he’s not alone and can accept being loved.

We want Yor to know she’s not an outsider to the family and is in fact normal

And ultimately we want Anya to one day know that her mom and dad won’t abandon her.

So the thought of them just being happy at the end and accepting each other is that thing we all want badly.

[cantareincminor]

Wiping up Cocoa

In Spy x Family chapter 30, it's played for laughs when Anya declares Yor is the best mama because of the way she wiped up her spilled cocoa.

I just realized today that even if Endo didn't intend it to, this scene does indeed illustrate why Yor is an excellent mother.

As a mother myself, my first reaction half of the time my kids make a mistake like spilling food or liquid or even tripping and hurting themselves is "ugh, not right now". It's terrible, but the life of a parent is a steady drip of stress and tiredness to the point where oftentimes having simple compassion for a child's clumsiness is very, very difficult. Especially if the day has been full of rushing around trying to get things done, constantly telling your child to listen to you and being ignored, to annoying consequences (e.g. don't touch that! ::kid touches it immediately and breaks something::).

But Yor, who works two jobs and has lived a very difficult life, retains endless compassion and patience for Anya. Her first reaction when Anya spills hot cocoa is concern and compassion, worrying she might be hurt. Contrast this with Twilight's first reaction, which is annoyance and scolding. It's a knee-jerk reaction he doesn't bother to control.

Yor's next reaction is not even to scold Anya, but to clean it up and care for her. She doesn't scold Anya at all.

Then we see this over-the-top reaction from Anya.

This is again probably not intended by the author, but Anya grew up in a lab, then a bunch of orphanages and four adoptive families that abandoned her. She is probably used to being treated with cruelty and coldness. Being scolded for minor transgressions. It would make sense for her to gravitate toward Yor as a warm, nonjudgmental presence. A true mother figure.

The more I think about Forger family dynamics, the more I admire Yor.

[helioraesol]

[Spy x Family Chapter 86 Spoilers] What I believe Twilight's unfinished thought would have been.

"...Which is why-- I'll make a world where that won't need to be true."

Twilight has built up this reputation of being the perfect spy who can put aside emotion and feeling for the sake of the mission. Yet with Operation Strix, it's the first time that a sliver of his real self behind the Twilight identity he has became, buried deep within his subconscious, is forced to shine. And it's this dim light peering through the walls of his heart that, for the first time in his career as a spy, inadvertently ends up helping his mission. Operation Strix progresses when the hint of real feeling is allowed to take control. He's so used to being the perfect spy who never gets anything wrong and never lets his emotions guide him. Yet, when he acts as Twilight, the man who puts his goals above all else, it strains the relationship between himself and Anya and Yor, and by consequence, the mission.

There's a reason Yor's smiling face is front and center in the panel. He's thinking about her. The mission to capture Winston Wheeler is the first time Twilight gets close to acknowledging that she has affected him. But he's never able to outright say it, because if he did, then that would completely shatter the mask he's worked so hard to maintain. Yet, instead of unpacking the Pandora's box that are his feelings, in his conversation with Nightfall, he re-frames his decision to avoid the reality that the Twilight mask is slipping.

It's at this point that even if Twilight himself doesn't recognize it yet, it's clear he's fallen for Yor. The Yor who is incredibly dense. The Yor who is a terrible cook. The Yor who gets easily flustered; who doesn't understand how to be "normal". That Yor.

Twilight has been with countless women for the sake of missions before. Undoubtedly, he's been with some of them far longer than he has with her. They're certainly not perfect either. So what makes Yor so special? It's because, for the first time in his life, he's able to be his real self, even if partially. And that is terrifying for him. He believes it's a weakness, and in a lot of ways, he has a point. His job is too dangerous for letting his feelings get in the way. And yet, it's those feelings of his that help him advance Operation Strix.

He doesn't want the imperfectly perfect Yor who means too much to him now to go. He will build a better world for her sake.

[spyxfamilyanalysis]

[SPY x FAMILY Chapter 107] Part 1(Damianya)

Listen, I know this whole chapter is all about Anya and her friends coincidently meet together at the festival and have fun together, but this is what I care about:

What kind of throw is that :))))

And this is just the appetizer, now the main course:

Seriously, not only this is Anya's huge misinterpreting with Twilight's plan B & C, she is just too childish and easy to cry :')))

But that's what makes her become Damian's attention :3

And whatcha look at that, he fell into Becky's trap :o

Basically, 30% is friends gathering, 20% parents discussing stuff, 40% Damianya, 10% other stuffs...

But for SxF fans, they only care the 40% :))))

Honest opinion... this chapter is kinda boring but peaceful (?), probably because there is no actions yet. But hey, I love the idea that Endo-sensei drew this chapter surround only the little kids. Everthing is simplified into a friends-and-family gathering, like showing what life is like living as a normal family. And I feel like Operation Strix is a longtime mission, and it's starting to feel like it's being forgotten :)))

First part will only be about the ship momets :)))

Next part will be other things relating to the plot of the story/mission.

[peanutjinan]

My take on Melinda in the new chapter:

So, from what we know about Melinda so far, her dichotomous feelings for Damian stem from her loving him as her son and hating him as Donovan's son. She seems to feel deep hatred towards her husband, and it spills over towards her son(s?).

And I feel like Melinda is genuinely happy that Damian is making friends and getting a social support system outside of his father's influence. She wants Damian to stop obsessing over getting his father's approval and turn more and more similar to the man she despises.

I have the feeling that Demetrius did not turn out the way she wanted, and is following his father's path. With Damian, she sees a chance, because he is becoming friends with a little "peasant" girl at school.

This also gives me hope that if Damian does stop trying to win Donovan's approval so hard, and continues growing into a different direction from the path his father has set for him due to the emotional support system he's building at school with his classmates and teachers... that there might be a chance for the relationship between Damian and his mother to improve.

[whateversawesome]

When I think about the relationship between Melinda and Yor, and how Melinda felt drawn to Yor from the beginning...Instinct never misses and I think it was precisely that what told Melinda she should be close to Yor.

Yor is a natural protector. She is strong, empathetic and overall a good person. She probably makes her feel safe. That's why Melinda feels so happy whenever she sees Yor, that's why she trusted her and why she followed her advice.

And honestly, don't you think that's why Twilight feels drawn to her in the first place too? She just has this something about her that makes people feel safe.

We all need people like that in our life; strong people we can rely on. It makes me happy that someone like Melinda, who is going through a difficult time has someone like Yor.

[hiiragireina]

You know, I can interpret this scene. Maybe you don't realize it.

A water that comes out represents "barrier" that separates Loid and Anya. When Anya wants to hold Yor's hand, the water (barrier) disappear and Anya finally reached Loid's hand.

In Anya's perspective, finally she get a complete parental figures.

In Loid's perspective, his "family's" existences (Anya, Yor and Bond) breaks his "barrier" that he build for years (IYKWIM). It also means that Loid (Twilight or Redacted) starting to become human

"Twilight's journey is accepting his humanity by accepting his family's (Yor, Anya and Bond)'s love".

It depends how you can interpret this scene. Hope it helps 🥰

[lassify]

Twilight's Guilt

*Spoilers for Spy x Family Chapter 107*

I haven't seen anyone talking about this yet, but I just can't get it out of my head.

Chapter 107 is a real goldmine for Twilight The Spy. All these amazing connections! All this potential intelligence! He can finally feel like he is extracting what he can from Anya's hard-won connections at Eden, and he is fully using every opportunity possible to squeeze what he can for Operation Strix.

And then Jeeves had to go ahead and say this:

Jeeves really hits the nail on the head here.

He probably knows about the responsibilities and expectations that are put on the Eden kids by all of their parents - of which he understands Damian's position the most intimately - but at this point in time, Jeeves (likely) has no idea of the extra burden that has been put on one child in particular.

That is, Twilight's burden on Anya.

Not just the burden of becoming an Imperial Scholar, and doing well in her tests, and making friends with the right people: only Twilight knows about the burden of being a fake family, of having to complete a mission, and dispose of her when it's over.

"How I hope that these children are to remain forever unburdened by the statures and standpoints of their parents..."

This is what I love about Endo's storytelling so much: so much is said with so few words and gestures.

Because after Jeeves says his piece, we get a look from Twilight. It's interesting - he almost looks bored, but the lack of response is by itself so telling, even when the other parents express their remorse.

To me, he looks exhausted. This pretence must be so exhausting.

Then his gaze turns towards Anya.

And: he's guilty.

Twilight knows that Jeeves is right; that by taking up a fatherly role for this child, he has automatically burdened her with his own goals and expectations.

Which then leads us to this panel:

I love this panel so much. I honestly felt myself tearing up looking at it.

The first thing that the reader notices is the vast expanse of negative space: everything and everyone else has faded away, and now it is only them. Without the bustling festival and rowdy kids and background characters, suddenly the reader is so aware of the distance between Twilight and Anya. We know that this distance is emotional as well as physical; because Twilight has put himself in the position of the 'onlooker', he is separating his emotions and keeping himself distant from Anya as a person.

I also couldn't help but notice that this panel, unlike every other one on this spread, did not have a border. Endo intended the negative space around them to be endless and borderless, to show that the guilt has the potential to swallow Twilight entirely.

Finally, the size difference between them: while we can interpret this as distance, I also see their physical forms as an illustration of their difference in power. In that sense, one could say that Twilight is larger in this panel, because he overwhelms Anya in the power that he holds over her. He is her 'father'; the man who took her away from the orphanage; and the man who could put her back without a second's notice. Twilight is fully aware of all of this.

(Despite his ignorance of Anya's telepathic power, the scale is still very much in Twilight's favour.)

We even see this side of Anya as though from Twilight's perspective: suddenly, Anya is just a child that caught up in something so much bigger. With our view just of Twilight's back, we can imagine the weight that this must have on his shoulders, bearing a burden that only he is aware of.

And yet, here you are, Twilight...

Despite the attention paid to Twilight's guilt in this double-page spread, Twilight is still very much back to 'business as usual' within the next couple of pages after this. After all, he has a mission to complete. As a spy, he should be adept at compartmentalising his emotions by now...

... Or perhaps, his only option is to keep squashing his guilt down, before he drowns in it.

[galacticncrazy]

Loid Forger and Weakness (Analysis)

I was watching gameplay footage of What Remains of Edith Finch and towards the ending I thought about the idea of memories, and one thing led to another and I thought of Spy x Family, specifically Loid. It made me wonder if he ever did confront his past and what exactly weakness means to him.

(These thoughts may not be organized since it happened so late at night but bear with me.)

Initial Thoughts

I always thought about being taught that the idea of, "you have to be strong" which often goes hand in hand with this idea of "you can't show emotions". I feel like Loid constantly tells himself he can't be weak, buy what does that mean if his idea of being strong is to not show any emotion?

Memories

I don't believe it being so long ago is the reason he doesn't remember his parents faces, I want to believe he purposefully forgot what they looked like, and this probably applies to his actual name too. His home was destroyed, any and all photos of his family were lost in the debris, he burned his identification papers so there's also no record of him ever having existed. He said it himself that there is no one left who knows his name.

I should also mention how he remembers the faces of his friends and croquette lady. Loid remembering his friends faces are a given since he believed they had died during the first bombing but he later reunited with them when he was a teenager, only to lose them during a botched military operation, leaving nothing behind but dog tags.

While it may be random to include the croquette lady I feel that remembering her face is still significant given that she was the last person he spoke to before the bombs dropped, as well as being the first casualty he saw.

Memories (continued)

It may not mean anything but find it interesting that his name is hidden like this, maybe I'm thinking it about it too much but it's almost as if it were blocked out, much like how classified files have certain sentences edited out because of their sensitive nature. If he had forgotten his name it liked would've been blurred but instead it's redacted, this paired with not remembering his parents faces, it's almost as if he made himself forget, but why?

Weakness

I think his parents faces specifically his mother and his actual name are all that connects him to who was before, he likely still remembered up until he joined WISE where he was possibly taught to let go of the past, not because they didn't care about what happened to him but because it likely would've had an impact on his work, and he passed on that same mentality to Fiona, about spies not showing emotion, to stay alert and not be ignorant, because to him those two things are what make someone weak.

I find it interesting to believe that Twilight wasn't always this way but rather he adapted his own experiences and the mindset he was taught into him and realized that his emotions and overall ignorance is what led him to participate in a war, without even knowing why. The reason he did so was because of those weaknesses and that he needed to discard them. So it's no surprise that during his fight with Wheeler, but mostly Yuri, that he came to terms with the fact he's getting weak, because instead of doing what he would normally do if it was anyone else, he instead chose to spare him. If he was the Twilight that he was prior to Strix then he absolutely would've killed Yuri because he wouldn't have any reason not to, but he does, and in doing so that decision to spare him almost cost him his life.

"You're getting weak"

It all comes to a head when he recalls the event, he acknowledges that Wheeler is for lack of a better word, perfect. Someone that he himself used to be but somewhere along the away something changed. Twilight acknowledged that he was getting weak and the source of that weakness, was his small but still very present feelings for Yor, if those feelings weren't there and if Yor was just another person to use for the sake of the mission, then he wouldn't have spared Yuri but he did, for her sake.

While he may have been thinking about doubting himself while thinking about the encounter with Yuri I believe the panel still holds some weight, Loid knows he's starting to slip up and this time was too close of a call, he knows he's experiencing.

It may have happened long ago but it still relevant to how Loid is as a character thus far, that being Fiona's observation that his smile had a shred of genuineness to it when she visited, that bit of emotion being a result of spending time with his family, and learning to form connections again so it's only a matter of time before he actually expresses his own emotions directly in some capacity.

Closing Thoughts

This entire post came as a result of What Remains of Edith Finch, which I highly recommend people play as it has a nice mystery element to it as well as its overall themes of death and memories and being presented in such a unique way. The concept of keeping your emotions hidden and locked away is something I relate to which is all the more reason as to why I'd like to see Loid be more open about the way he feels or genuinely breaks down and lets all those bottled up emotions out, allowing himself to fall apart be vulnerable around people, specifically his family. There's this really nice artwork I saw once of Yor and Anya hugging a child Loid, and I always thought that externally Loid is a grown man but internally he's a child wanting someone to lift him up and tell him, "it's going to be okay".

[sophiamarieispinkbunny-chan]

Yor's Hometown and Westalis

Yor mentioned that she's from a place in Ostania called Eastern Nielsberg.

Obviously, I thought it was on the Eastern part of Ostania as well. But then we get this statement from her from the recent update, Chapter 92.

She's from the South part of Ostania-A Southern folk.

And how did I dare forgot, the dish that she can make without messing up was even named Southern Stew.

Why is this important? Because Mr. Green said this specific information on Chapter 39 about Southern Folks from Ostania.

Southern Folks have a code for defecting to the West which might indicate that they're the ones who usually do this.

Then I remembered this Twiyor moment from Chapter 35

Yor knows a lullaby from Loid's childhood that was always sung to him by his mother. How could Yor know that same exact lullaby?

I don't think I remember Yor mentioning Westalis neither in speech or thought (correct me if I'm wrong pls). Though that doesn't mean that she wasn't aware of the existence of it. But I don't think she, herself, would try or have tried defecting to Westalis. And she's too young and too focused on taking care of her brother to even consider this.

But how about her family? Her parents? Their relatives? Why did Yuri and her are left alone when their parents died? What happened to their grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles? Where were they and why didn't they took them in? Did they perhaps defect to the West and Yor's family remained on Ostania? We can't be sure since we only know a little about Yor's backstory and her entire family background.

But even in Loid's backstory, when he was talking to the croquette lady, she mentioned that she was part Ostanian herself and she has a family in the East even though she's residing in West. Meaning, there could also be people from Ostania that has Westalian relatives. Yor's family could have Westalian background or someone in their family tree is and who knows, her family may have actually some sort of connection with Loid's family in Luwen.

I actually don't know where I was going with this or if this even make sense or plot relevant but I can't help but be intrigued by this.